Proposed New ATV Trail through the Sproul State Forest

12/27/2017

by KTA Staff and Members

Recently, KTA staff and members attended two meetings in Lockhaven to review the findings from the Larson Design Group study that would potentially add a 27.3 mile new ATV trail through the Sproul State Forest to connect two existing ATV parks.

A couple of points were emphasized. First, there is no adequate law enforcement and public contact, and second, the proposed trail alignment does not connect the two designated ATV areas and therefore the trail is not feasible. Larson can't figure out how to take the trail down the mountain above Renovo (50% grade), through the Bucktail State Park Natural Area, through the Borough of South Renovo, and over the Rt. 144 bridge. The map of the proposed new trail has a puzzle piece over this area. However, the locals sitting near us were saying "just build it and we'll figure out how to get across the river". Of course these comments were from proponents of the project.

The ATV group repeatedly touted the Hatfield McCoy trail. KTA members commented that this is North Central Pennsylvania, not West Virginia or eastern Kentucky. Additionally, the ATV group wanted to have the partial trail alignment built without the missing chunk.
There also appears to be no account of species of special concern or any evaluation of vernal ponds or the Audubon special bird area project smack dab in the middle of the proposed alignment.

Some key points:

The proposed ATV trail will bisect the Walker Trail, Eddie Lick, and the Chuck Keiper Trail.
The proposed trail will run within 50 yards of public roads. This seems to be something that will encourage ATV riders to access roads that are off limits to them if they can easily see the road.
The trail will come within 300 feet of private cabins and even closer to designated natural areas.
There would be 37 road crossings.
Multiple streams will be impacted:
- Between Bloody Skillet and West Branch Susquehanna:
  - West Branch Big Run - 4 crossings
  - Panther Branch - 1 or 2 crossings
  - Swamp Branch - 1 crossing
  - Wetland crossing near cabin
  - Clendenin Run - 1 crossing
- Between Renovo and Whiskey Springs:
  - Bee Tree watershed numerous springs/wetlands
  - Shintown Run watershed - 1 crossing

DCNR should be posting the map of the proposed trail online very soon.

Read more HERE and HERE.

KTA members are encouraged to participate when DCNR opens the comment period to the public.

7 Comments

Rich Wykoff

1/2/2018 01:51:51 pm

The forums provided by DCNR and Larson Design provided plenty of opportunity for dialogue among the various constituencies that attended. For an accurate read of all of the comments and summaries that were generated in those sessions, it is worth studying the PowerPoint linked in this article. Several ATV organizations participated in the discussions as did many municipalitities, environmental groups, camp owners, and interested individuals. They are all listed in the report. The reference to West Virginia and other states specifically referred to the economic impact of ATV Tourism as described in a recent study of the Hatfield-MCCoy trail system, that generates about $2 billion a year for the state.

Those who visit our area in north central PA, and have visited for many years, understand, or should understand why ATV Tourism has value when considered as a component of a program designed to improve the economies of communities in our part of the state. Tourism in all it’s forms is vital to ensuring the success of that program. Our region is suffering. It would be irresponsible to ignore or avoid pursuing this opportunity.

We have much to offer in our region that is especially attractive to those who enjoy the outdoors. It is possible that we can work together to find ways to to share these resources for the mutual benefit of everyone without ruining what we all see as a valuable asset.

Dad was a CCC boy at Hammersley Fork and Westport. He was a forest ranger in District 10 and was responsible for the Keating Division that encompassed a portion of Sproul that included the roads, trails, and woods around Drury Run, Shintown, Westport, Cooks Run, Bitumen, and Keating... including Keating Mountain where he grew up. We lived in the ranger station at Cooks Run and spent a lot of time hunting and fishing there...and sometimes going out on the job with Dad. He loved his work... much of it having been an extension of what he learned building roads and trails in the CCCS and as a laborer in the Keating Division. He believed that the state’s constitution had it right... that Penn’s Woods belonged to the people for their enjoyment. Keeping trails open, roads graded, vistas open, drains open, and catering to camp-owners and visitors was his mission. I believe that we still want that to be so.

KTA has been, and continues to be a blessing to our area. Prowl the Sproul and other hiking events based at WCSA keep trails open to places in our woods that are generally only open to hikers. Many of those trails were cut by pioneers and the 5 CCC camps in Western Clinton County. There is every reason to believe that hiking will always be seen as one of our area’s key assets.

Our neighboring states have found ways to develop solutions for many of the concerns voiced in the Larson sessions. It is possible that we can do the same through open, honest, and sincere dialogue.

Respectfully yours,
Rich Wykoff

Robert Davey

1/4/2018 06:26:11 pm

This proposed ATV trail is not feasible according to the definition of feasible.I t doesn’t connect the two designated ATV areas. It is exploitation of The Sproul State Forest and it will promote a myriad of illegal ATV Trails and encroach oncritical forest habitats and will be detrimental to habitats of species of special concern. Please remember that North Central Pa. and The Sproul State Forest is not West Virginia and Eastern Kentucky. the Sproul State Forest and the other State Forests are certified well managed and sustainable.This new proposed ATV trail is neither.Please let DCNR know this in no uncertain terms. thanks Butch Davey

Rich Wykoff link

1/5/2018 06:03:07 pm

We need to continue the dialogue regarding developing the fit for ATV Tourism in our region. Indeed, the issues and concerns raised by Butch have been voiced and recorded throughout this process as well as in other initiatives over the years from when recreational motorized sports became affordable and popular. It is reasonable to suggest that there is a reason why those concerns continue to exist rather than having been resolved by now.

We disagree with the theory that outlaw trails will proliferate around the new trail. The element that does that is primarily local and will continue that practice regardless of the results of this study. It is not typical of those who invest the time and money it takes to participate in this form of recreation.

Regarding the impact of the trail on special aspects of Sproul , our forest has been a “broken forest” since the beginning of mining and lumbering in the 1800s. There has never been a break for relief in that chain of events. Most recent is the impact of the Marcellus gas exploration and the proliferation of well pads, ponds, wider roads, compressors, and pipelines. This trail is worth the effort needed to assure it is safe, respectful of the areas it touches, and fulfills it’s purpose. Hence the need for dialogue that is inclusive, deliberate, and focused on reasoned and workable results. DCNR is taking a big step forward with this study as well as with the work being done to address the big picture regarding trails in all forms. We need to encourage that process no matter our particular bent or constituency. Interestingly, many of the old roads and trails are now trails for hikers, bikers, horses, and ATVs.

Data clearly defines the exponential growth of ATV ownership and the related income derived from ATV tourism. Indeed, as Butch said, we are not the other states that have embraced this form of recreation, however we share similar resources that are attractive to this genre of tourism and are highly capable of competing for the revenue that it generates... revenue sorely needed by our region and state. At one time it was the snowmobile enthusiasts, hunters, and those who enjoy fishing that supported our local economy. That has waned. There are early signs that ATV tourism is capable of re-energizing the businesses and communities in our region that rely on tourism.

Can the trail work ? Yes. Options were presented at the last Larson forum that make the trail possible if not feasible. Like any project of this size and magnitude, it will take many years and much work to develop, design, fund, and build. That’s reality. We have seen that time and again in projects like the Chuck Keiper Trail, Donut Hole Trail, and Bloody Skillet ATV Park. There is time to develop ways to collaborate and develop solutions that are reasonable, acceptable, and generally deemed beneficial.

Let’s work together.

Respectfully,
Rich Wykoff
Member, Central Mountains ATV Association, Inc.

1/8/2018 09:24:10 pm

Apparently Rich Wykoff representing the ATV club interests is not concerned about illegal outlaw ATV trails made by locals on the Chuck Keiper Trail or within Natural Areas since the local economy will somehow improve. The way West Virginia has been decimated by extractive industries does not compare with the Pa. Wilds of central and north central Pa. Reclamation of past surface mining and remining and reclamation has resulted in fish and amphibians returning to the West Branch of the Susquehanna. Sport fishing,canoeing, and kayaking are now part of the mix.The possibility of a natural gas operated power plant in Renovo is a possibility within the foreseable future.The proposed ATV feasibility study has not addressed the myriad of disastrous consequences to the Sproul State Forest and the fauna and flora which make up this Pennsylvania gem. The proposal is not feasible. Please let DCNR reject this feasibility study since it is not forest conservation but blatant forest exploitation.

4/18/2018 06:01:43 pm

For the record... Butch knows better. We have known each other a long time... decades. It is one thing to disagree. It is another to mischaracterize one’s position to make a point. Indeed, I have good reason to advocate for the business this will bring to our area. We need it to survive. This can and will work... for everyone.

Mina Blair

2/16/2018 04:41:25 am

No ATV’s
This idea has been in progress for years, to include the “proposed trail” being worked into mine reclamation and the pipeline since 1999.
They did not follow the rules!
That want to go up thru Gratzmar Avenue which Noyes Township designated as ATV Road and up Old Tipple Road thru my property and didn’t even inform me.
To make it worse the reclamation, oil pipeline construction, and developments on higher elevation causing an overflow of water spilling 7 on AMD ph scale with 41/2 feet of water in 2016.
No one will take responsibility!!!
Clinton County Comprehensive Plan Reference Storm Water Managent Plan 25 years plus old-which is out of state compliance for Noyes Township.
Notes Township Supervisors -Clinton County Commissioner Mr. Snyder & Smeltz-Clinton County Conservation & EMS don’t have a copy either.
Rep Mike Hanna office sent me a letter telling me to look it up on microfiche at the library and stated they called DEP for me. DEP supervisors emphatically deny any communications from his office.
They even applied for a Seda Cog communications grant and had 911 access deemed.
I had Old Tipple Road removed from Clinton County GIS Mapping, 911 access removed, and have not stopped advocating for the stakeholders of the Whiskey Springs ATV to take responsibility for storm water overflow with acid mine drainage into my home (which my poor doggie drank), they scrambled last summer to clean up part of their big AMD mess up there.
I didn’t have the resources to save my home but I saved every penny to keep land.
There will be no ATV Road, no 3 headed fish going to creek to Susquehanna River, no more orange rocks, and someday the Good Old Boys of Clinton County-Ring Leader Mr.Hanna will be held accountable.
I am a avid hiker, participate in Hyner Challenge, and am unbelievably sad they can’t clean up after themselves for money. Apparently it’s more important to have all their buddies buy land to subdivide and sell with Clinton County Economic Partnership doing the Contract Work Hargrer Utilities.
Even appealing to the need for the almighty dollar, I offered three times to personally show them they path of destruction, have them remediate situation for now plus future generations and restore my home. I did not ask for one penny of self-profit,any other kickback, put it in writing and offered to sign a non recourse agreement. My generosity of hoping they would do the “right thing” was an effort made in vain.
If the powers at be can’t not do the job properly to protect the Susquehanna river now, they are not responsible enough to preserve the trails I hike & participate in trail races, potentially killing off the native floral & fauna, and any delightful critter that call Sproul State Forest Home—They have already demonstrated they don’t serve nor can maintain anything other than their checkbook.
No ATV thru Old Tipple Road it is no negotiable and they should all be ashamed. Admitting when you made a mistake, like everyone builds trust and cooperation.
😝

Ryan McKenna

9/23/2018 03:14:22 pm

Hello Everyone,

ATV enthusiasts are growing rapidly throughout the country. I am one of them. I live in southeast PA and have a cabin in Union County. The closest place for us to ride from Delaware County is up by Pocono Raceway, Dixon Miller trail system. It's a few hour drive.

From my cabin in Union Co, it's a few hour drive to Whiskey Springs, and Bloody Skillet. It is still close enough for a day ride with a place to stay overnight. Having more places to ride and explore keeps the sport exciting. You can only ride one trail system so many times in a row before getting bored.

Now, most of us ATV riders are very friendly and follow the rules. The people I ride with do not trash the forest. In fact, I pick up others garbage when I see it and dispose of properly. We enjoy the challenges of climbing rough terrain, getting dirty, but most of all we enjoy the view. Taking pictures of wildlife, looking at the valleys and peaks from clearings along the trail, even some locals displays that have been created over years before the trails were even in existence. It's an adrenaline rush, and a tranquil experience restoring balance and peace within us. We mean no harm to the locals, the environment, or wildlife.

You will always have those who don't follow the rules. That is a given. You also will always have those who litter, those who go where they dont belong. Having more places to ride legally gives riders a place to go and less likely to go where they shouldn't. It also allows more people like me to exist in the trails who clean up what others left behind.

There have only been a few times I got off track, mainly because the trail markers have gone missing and I had to guess which was the right direction. Also once was a walking trail which wasn't marked well and I realized that a machine couldn't navigate it after a half mile or so, then turned around. So trails need better maintenance. I would even volunteer to help with that if I knew who to contact.

I have met and talked with many DCNR officers and they have been very friendly. They enforce the rules, and are extremely knowledgeable. One gave me some nice maps of both Bloody Skillet and Whiskey Springs which I had laminated so that they serve me for years to come.

I really enjoyed the rails to trails addition off of snowshoe/bloody skillet. We spent a whole weekend at a friends cabin which connects to Bloody Skillet in Orviston.

In close, I will say again that the greater majority of us riders mean no harm to property or to the forest. If anything we want to share the beauty of our state with pictures and videos from our excursions. We would stop to help someone in need. We will come eat at your restaurants, get gas, machine repairs, and stay at your lodges or campgrounds. We would participate in events that would benefit the forest and local towns. We pay for our tags and insurance. Most of all, we appreciate having a place to ride. I hope everyone can work together to make this trail system. Thank you.

Your comment will be posted after it is approved.

Proposed New ATV Trail through the Sproul State Forest

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